Toronto Van Attack

[Sarge]

I know who you are and I wasn't arguing with you. I was commenting on the end of your post that says:

I was referring to the difference between .223 and 5.56, not the difference between .223 or 5.56 and .22.

 

[Sarge]

I have never heard anyone, in common speech, say ".22 caliber" when referring to .223/5.56.

Neither have I. But it seems to me, and perhaps I am mistaken, that Elfie stated that an AR-15 is .22 caliber. It is. So is a M-4 or M-16. He's right. It's a .22 caliber bullet.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Neither have I. But it seems to me, and perhaps I am mistaken, that Elfie stated that an AR-15 is .22 caliber. It is. So is a M-4 or M-16. He's right. It's a .22 caliber bullet.

I have to disagree that is was Elftard said. Read it again:

Ar-15's have only one purpose and one user intention in mind by it's designer(Eugene Stoner by the way) and that is to kill or mame as many human beings as efficiently as possible. That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet to decrease recoil as well as to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible with the previous generation of .30 caliber rifles.

Ze says the AR-15. Calls out the weapon itself, NOT the caliber. Ze then says the AR-15 is designed to kill humans efficiently. Ze then says "that manifested itself" (referring to the design of the AR-15 to kill humans) in the choice of the .22 caliber to "decrease recoil" and to "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible..."

The AR-15 is not used by our armed forces. Soldiers do not use AR-15s.

Ze's entire point was about the AR-15 and "IT'S" ammunition....being used by soldiers.

While the "diameter" of the .223 is the same as the .22, the .223 or the M-16 variant is vastly more deadly than a .22 or a .22 rimfire.

 

[Elfiero]

I have to disagree that is was Elftard said. Read it again:



Ze says the AR-15. Calls out the weapon itself, NOT the caliber. Ze then says the AR-15 is designed to kill humans efficiently. Ze then says "that manifested itself" (referring to the design of the AR-15 to kill humans) in the choice of the .22 caliber to "decrease recoil" and to "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible..."

The AR-15 is not used by our armed forces. Soldiers do not use AR-15s.

Ze's entire point was about the AR-15 and "IT'S" ammunition....being used by soldiers.

While the "diameter" of the .223 is the same as the .22, the .223 or the M-16 variant is vastly more deadly than a .22 or a .22 rimfire.

The AR-15 is just the semi auto version of the M-16. Again you are arguing semantics since you have no point.

Here I'll give you one: I used circumference instead of diameter, I meant diameter of course.

Rant on that for 8 more posts or whatever.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Again you are arguing semantics

Actually, that is in fact what you are doing. You're asking the audience to infer your message when you directly stated the "soldier" carries the .22 caliber AR-15 into battle.

Your ineffective writing skills and lack of knowledge are your issue, not ours.

 

[Elfiero]

Actually, that is in fact what you are doing. You're asking the audience to infer your message when you directly stated the "soldier" carries the .22 caliber AR-15 into battle.

Your ineffective writing skills and lack of knowledge are your issue, not ours.

Lol...sure. Let's exclude context of course.

The discussion encompassed vans, civilians shooting people with Ar-15s and the caliber of the weapon in question. It also included a mention of the military history behind it's introduction as a military weapon designated as the M- 16 ( starting as the Armalite AR-10 IIRC) to replace the previous .30 caliber generation of rifles.

You then acted like the pigeon playing chess knocking all the pieces off the board then **** on said board with ludicrous statements implying that I said soldiers carried .22 caliber cartridges( and presumably the rifles to fire them with) into battle.

You are a sad, sad, piece of work.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

implying that I said soldiers carried .22 caliber cartridges( and presumably the rifles to fire them with) into battle.

No implying. That is in fact what you in fact actually exactly stated.

Back it on up Tard, this is comical to watch.

 

[bmoritz]

Indoctrination does nothing as a substitute for critical thinking skills.

Example: Black people kill other black people in almost every single case (other than cheating wife/ husband etc.) because of their economic status, as a result of the generational systemic racism that initiated it and fosters it to this day.

They don't kill each other because they are racist towards black people, or because they believe in a different sky fairy...see the difference?

Example 2:



Vans serve many purposes: family haulers, delivery, service vehicle, and ironically as ambulances to carry off the wounded and dead from an act of gun violence.

They also sadly can be used as a weapon, although this was never their intended purpose.

Ar-15's have only one purpose and one user intention in mind by it's designer(Eugene Stoner by the way) and that is to kill or mame as many human beings as efficiently as possible. That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet to decrease recoil as well as to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible with the previous generation of .30 caliber rifles. And as a bonus that .22 caliber bullet because it's so small and fragments easy, tends to cause serious cavitation once it gets inside a human being so it might not kill him, but the damage is horrendous.

But yeah.......vans.

See how that critical thinking stuff works?

You have officially just proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that you have ZERO knowledge of what you speak of. You are light years beyond ******* stupid.

 

[bmoritz]

Sure Tiny Tim. You've lost the argument so all you are left with is conflation and semantics, hell you even have some of your fellow travelers helping you.

So what exactly did I say they carry: .22 long rifle, short, bird shot, magnum.......what?

You know exactly what I was talking about, but carry on exposing yourself.

You got caught RED HANDED being a ******* liar, and you just keep digging deeper. You truly are without value. Why is this ******* still here?

 

[hamster]

I like turtles.

Sent from my [device_name] using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Confluence]

Great to have Elfie's display of brilliance in this thread just a few days after Trog's 30-30 logic.

What do they have in common? Lol

Sent from my SM-G950U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Sarge]

I have to disagree that is was Elftard said. Read it again:



Ze says the AR-15. Calls out the weapon itself, NOT the caliber. Ze then says the AR-15 is designed to kill humans efficiently. Ze then says "that manifested itself" (referring to the design of the AR-15 to kill humans) in the choice of the .22 caliber to "decrease recoil" and to "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible..."

The AR-15 is not used by our armed forces. Soldiers do not use AR-15s.

Ze's entire point was about the AR-15 and "IT'S" ammunition....being used by soldiers.

While the "diameter" of the .223 is the same as the .22, the .223 or the M-16 variant is vastly more deadly than a .22 or a .22 rimfire.

That's not how I read it at all. I read it as the AR15 was designed first with the intention it is a killing machine. The military liked it, and began development of what would become the M16. The very first requirement for the M16 was that it be .22 caliber. As far as the less recoil and less load bearing on the Soldier, I never heard of that before. And try as I might, after reading what he posted about 40 times, I cannot see where he inferred, implied or stated that Soldiers carry AR-15's into battle.

 

[Coach]

Seriously? 10 people die, and the left and right are tallying score cards, and mocking each other?

The reason why our country sucks, is bipartisan politics.

Agreed. No need to mock a tragedy. What what was his motive?

 

[Elfiero]

You got caught RED HANDED being a ******* liar, and you just keep digging deeper. You truly are without value. Why is this ******* still here?

Damn bro your not even the one getting reamed and yet you feel the burn. You hurt so badly that you want me banned....

Are you and Tim twins or something,?

They say those types feel each others pain even when separated great distances....LMAO what a snowflake.




Below are words from a man who doesn't agree with me politically, a military veteran, and who works with this type weapon everyday:

Neither have I. But it seems to me, and perhaps I am mistaken, that Elfie stated that an AR-15 is .22 caliber. It is. So is a M-4 or M-16. He's right. It's a .22 caliber bullet.

Furthermore:

cal·i·ber


ˈkaləbər/Submit


noun


noun: calibre; noun: caliber; noun: cal; plural noun: cals; noun: cal.; plural noun: calibres; plural noun: calibers


1.


the quality of someone's character or the level of someone's ability.


"they could ill afford to lose a man of his caliber"


synonyms: quality, merit, distinction, stature, excellence, preeminence; More


ability, expertise, talent, capability, capacity, proficiency


"a man of his caliber"


the standard reached by something.


"educational facilities of a very high caliber"


2.


the internal diameter or bore of a gun barrel.


"a .22 caliber repeater rifle"


the diameter of a bullet, shell, or rocket.


synonyms: bore, diameter, gauge


"the caliber of a gun"


the diameter of a circular body, such as a tube, blood vessel, or fiber.

Indoctrination does nothing as a substitute for critical thinking skills.

Example: Black people kill other black people in almost every single case (other than cheating wife/ husband etc.) because of their economic status, as a result of the generational systemic racism that initiated it and fosters it to this day.

They don't kill each other because they are racist towards black people, or because they believe in a different sky fairy...see the difference?

Example 2:



Vans serve many purposes: family haulers, delivery, service vehicle, and ironically as ambulances to carry off the wounded and dead from an act of gun violence.

They also sadly can be used as a weapon, although this was never their intended purpose.

Ar-15's have only one purpose and one user intention in mind by it's designer(Eugene Stoner by the way) and that is to kill or mame as many human beings as efficiently as possible. That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet to decrease recoil as well as to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible with the previous generation of .30 caliber rifles. And as a bonus that .22 caliber bullet because it's so small and fragments easy, tends to cause serious cavitation once it gets inside a human being so it might not kill him, but the damage is horrendous.

But yeah.......vans.

See how that critical thinking stuff works?

Now read the thread again so you can see who the liar is.


He got his *** handed to him and like I said he had no choice but to knock the pieces off the chess board then take a dump on it, he had no choice but to create a straw man to beat up on by claiming I stated soldiers carry .22 caliber CARTRIDGES and presumably .22 caliber rifles into combat.

If I had been speaking of say an old G3 and called it .30 Winchester(which you can because it's actually .308 Winchester / 7x whatever NATO) then Tim would have said that I said soldiers go into battle with lever action Winchester Model 94s......that's the type of pathetic loser liar argument he is making here.

Tim is what a textbook liar sounds like bmoritz.

If you can't deal with that as a spectator, then YOU ARE ALSO A LIAR AND TRULY a snowflake.

My work is done here....

 

[Elfiero]

That's not how I read it at all. I read it as the AR15 was designed first with the intention it is a killing machine. The military liked it, and began development of what would become the M16. The very first requirement for the M16 was that it be .22 caliber. As far as the less recoil and less load bearing on the Soldier, I never heard of that before. And try as I might, after reading what he posted about 40 times, I cannot see where he inferred, implied or stated that Soldiers carry AR-15's into battle.

Thank you Sarge for your honesty.

The M-16 actually started as the Armalite AR-10( AR stands for ARmalite) and it was in 7x whatever? or .308 winchester. They then at some point switched to the smaller 5.56 when they sold out to Colt and Colt realized you could carry more ammo and have less recoil by using the smaller .22 round with smaller cartridge of course. This was to get away from the problems of the M-14, which while a great weapon was too heavy and hard to control firing that large .30 cal. round.

At some point the Dutch picked up the production of the AR-10 and a few thousand were made that today are prized by collectors. The Portuguese army used them the longest and made all the mods necessary(and some carried over to the M-16) that made it a far more reliable weapon.

 

[Elfiero]

Thank you Sarge for your honesty.

The M-16 actually started as the Armalite AR-10( AR stands for ARmalite) and it was in 7x whatever? or .308 winchester. They then at some point switched to the smaller 5.56 when they sold out to Colt and Colt realized you could carry more ammo and have less recoil by using the smaller .22 round with smaller cartridge of course. This was to get away from the problems of the M-14, which while a great weapon was too heavy and hard to control firing that large .30 cal. round.

At some point the Dutch picked up the production of the AR-10 and a few thousand were made that today are prized by collectors. The Portuguese army used them the longest and made all the mods necessary(and some carried over to the M-16) that made it a far more reliable weapon.

I need to add something for clarity and that's that the M-14 was too hard to control when firing in full auto mode because of the larger caliber. You can see it in this video as the AR-10 is trying to toss the older guy around, where 110 pound women can shoot an M-16(.223) with no problems.

The AR-10 much like the M-14 probably starts to get away from you pretty quick if you have a 30 round mag firing in full auto.

 

[Elfiero]

Poor whites in Appalachia are arguably worse off than poor urban blacks. Yet violent crime is nearly nonexistent in that demographic. The difference is poor whites in Appalachia still have intact families where a mother and a father raising the children and teach them right from wrong

True to an extent, it's also easier to steal stuff for your meth habit and to cook meth out in the country without fear of being killed in an attempt from someone trying to rob you and your stuff, although it still happens.

It's a lot different when everyone is crammed in an urban environment.

 

[ark steel]

That's not how I read it at all. I read it as the AR15 was designed first with the intention it is a killing machine.

Are you saying the design of the AR was to kill as many humans as possible or interpreting what fuckwad is saying?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

That's not how I read it at all. I read it as the AR15 was designed first with the intention it is a killing machine. The military liked it, and began development of what would become the M16. The very first requirement for the M16 was that it be .22 caliber. As far as the less recoil and less load bearing on the Soldier, I never heard of that before. And try as I might, after reading what he posted about 40 times, I cannot see where he inferred, implied or stated that Soldiers carry AR-15's into battle.

Save for the fact that Elftard never mentioned the M16 in Ze's original post:

Ar-15's have only one purpose and one user intention in mind by it's designer(Eugene Stoner by the way) and that is to kill or mame as many human beings as efficiently as possible. That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet to decrease recoil as well as to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition than would be possible with the previous generation of .30 caliber rifles.

I reread that post 40 times myself - we all know Ze can't write coherently. One has to jump to a HUGE conclusion that Ze was talking about the M16 in Ze's original post, given the M16 was NEVER mentioned in Ze's original post.

Now if you consider Ze's post #53, where Ze tried to backtrack on Ze's stupid original post and said "What I meant is..." yeah you can make the inference, but not otherwise.

"That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet..." By who? Eugene Stoner? The now manufacturers of AR-15s?

When Ze then says "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition" having never referenced the M16, it's quite obvious Ze was still speaking of the AR15.

 

[Superman]

True to an extent, it's also easier to steal stuff for your meth habit and to cook meth out in the country without fear of being killed in an attempt from someone trying to rob you and your stuff, although it still happens.

It's a lot different when everyone is crammed in an urban environment.

steal from whom in a country setting? everyone knows everyone and it's not exactly bristling with a **** ton of resources.
but, I do like how you're now saying that country folk are cooking and using meth non-stop. or are you saying we should allow the procurement of resources for the cooking, supplying and usage of meth in urban settings?

please continue to educate us with your well thought out, and entirely lucid points. such a beacon of light on this board, you are.

 

[Superman]

Save for the fact that Elftard never mentioned the M16 in Ze's original post:



I reread that post 40 times myself - we all know Ze can't write coherently. One has to jump to a HUGE conclusion that Ze was talking about the M16 in Ze's original post, given the M16 was NEVER mentioned in Ze's original post.

Now if you consider Ze's post #53, where Ze tried to backtrack on Ze's stupid original post and said "What I meant is..." yeah you can make the inference, but not otherwise.

"That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet..." By who? Eugene Stoner? The now manufacturers of AR-15s?

When Ze then says "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition" having never referenced the M16, it's quite obvious Ze was still speaking of the AR15.

correct. go to any gun range and ask for ".22 caliber bullets" and you'll get .22 caliber bullets and NOT .223

 

[ark steel]

Someone breaks into your house. Are you thinking, " im going to grab the .22 caliber?"

Those guys that got shot up in the trailer, are they saying, "man, those .22 caliber bullets hurt."

 

[Sarge]

Are you saying the design of the AR was to kill as many humans as possible or interpreting what fuckwad is saying?

I was interpreting Ark.

 

[Elfiero]

You buffoons don't even realize you're all being taken behind the wood shed for a epic beat down. Elfie wins yet again.

Save for the fact that Elftard never mentioned the M16 in Ze's original post:



I reread that post 40 times myself - we all know Ze can't write coherently. One has to jump to a HUGE conclusion that Ze was talking about the M16 in Ze's original post, given the M16 was NEVER mentioned in Ze's original post.

Now if you consider Ze's post #53, where Ze tried to backtrack on Ze's stupid original post and said "What I meant is..." yeah you can make the inference, but not otherwise.

"That manifested itself in the choice of a .22 caliber bullet..." By who? Eugene Stoner? The now manufacturers of AR-15s?

When Ze then says "allow the soldier to carry more ammunition" having never referenced the M16, it's quite obvious Ze was still speaking of the AR15.

Why would you have to jump to a HUGE conclusion when the AR-15 is the same exact weapon as the M-16 except that the AR is semi-auto only?

The M designation was added by the military AR is what Armalite called the original. Colt then brought back the AR designation for the civilian model.

You are a drowning man who just can't accept what has happened here.

SAD YUGELY SAD.....

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Why would you have to jump to a HUGE conclusion when the AR-15 is the same exact weapon as the M-16 except that the AR is semi-auto only?

Keep on backing it up Tard. As I've said, your writing skills suck. Pretty blunt. You never mention the M16, assume we will all figure it out. Do enlighten us, firearms genius, since you diverted this conversation to "diameter" of caliber after stepping in your own ****...how many weapons fire a .22 diameter caliber? I won't go count, but I'll guess hundreds since using your designation of "diameter" of the caliber references a major **** ton list of .22 cal bullets by "diameter"

The 5.6 mm caliber or .22 caliber, is a small, extremely common size of ammunition, fitted to firearms with a bore diameter of 5.6 mm (0.22 in). It is the most common bore for rimfire ammunition, and has gained popularity in the air gun discipline as a hunting/field target/HFT pellet caliber.

5.6 mm caliber rimfire variations include:

.22 Long Rifle (LR), the most common cartridge type of this caliber, often referred to simply as ".22 caliber"
.22 BB (Bulleted Breech Cap)
.22 CB (Conical Ball Cap)
.22 CB cap, an American rimfire cartridge
.22 Long, same length, but lighter bullet than .22 LR
.22 Extra Long, an American rimfire rifle and handgun cartridge
.22 Short, used mostly in pocket pistols and mini-revolvers
.22 Winchester Rimfire, an American rimfire rifle cartridge
.22 WMR, (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) a cartridge that is longer and more powerful than a .22 LR
.22 Winchester Automatic, an American rimfire rifle cartridge
5.6 mm centerfire cartridges include:

5.56×45mm NATO, an intermediate cartridge widely used in modern sporting rifles
.22 Accelerator, a special loading of the .30-30, .308, and .30-06 cartridges that is manufactured by Remington
.22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, a cartridge for a rifle
.22 Hornet, a powerful variation, also known as 5.6×35R mm 5.728mm
.22 Remington Jet, an American centerfire revolver and rifle cartridge
.22 BR Remington, a wildcat cartridge commonly used in varmint hunting and benchrest shooting
.22 Savage HP, a.k.a. 5.6×52R, .22 Savage Hi-power, .22 Imp, a cartridge similar to the 22 Hornet introduced by Savage in 1912
.22 Spitfire, an American rifle cartridge
.22 PPC, a firearm cartridge used primarily in benchrest shooting
.22 TCM (a.k.a. .22 Micro-Mag), a 9mm diameter case necked to a .22 caliber bullet and designed to load into standard 9mm magazines; currently proprietary of Rock Island Armory and accommodating of that company's pistols and carbines also sold with 9mm barrel swap kits.

Hell that list doesn't even get into the .223 variants, etc.

Given the vastly wide variance of weapons that fire a .22 "diameter" bullet, we are supposed to KNOW you were speaking of the M16.

Got it.

That would be the same as me referencing a vehicle with 4 wheels and a 6 cylinder engine then getting pissed off because you didn't know I was speaking very specifically about a Honda Accord...even though there are thousands and thousands of 6 cylinder 4 wheel vehicles.

Back it on up again. This is quite fun.